Divided Path indent settings

 

How to Indent a Repeater Pattern

• First create a new adaptive component and place four points in a square arrangement
• Make the points adaptive
• Join the four points with four reference lines

• Place four more points on the mid-point of each reference line (watch for the triangular snap symbol
• Join those four points with two more reference lines
• Place yet another point on one of the central lines

• When you select the point, it will have an option (on the Option Bar, no less) to host it by intersection

• Select that option, then pick the other central reference line
• It will move the point to the central intersection.
• NB. On reflection, you could skip the last four stages and just have one central linking reference line with a single point on its mid-point.  However, you could this intersection technique for other situations - perhaps if your extruded geometry needs to be more complex than a cylinder (see later on).
• Select the central point and set its "Show Reference Planes" to "Always"

 

• Set the active Work Plane to the horizontal reference plane of the central point
• Place a reference circle centred on the point (assuming you want a cylinder)
• Give its radius a parameter

•  Select the circle and "Create Form"

•  Select the top facet of the cylinder and give its Positive Offset a parameter called "Height"
• Save and load the family into wherever your divided surface resides
• Place one of the components onto four adjacent nodes of the divided surface in the same order that they are numbered in the family (its good practice to always use the same convention - say clockwise, unlike the diagrams shown here!!)

• Select the adaptive component and click on the "Repeater" command (its the Array icons, but with the letter P on it)
• If you snapped to the nodes correctly it should create a regular pattern
• The extruded cylinders will be inset from the edge - however, they will only be inset by half the distance between nodes

• If you want the cylinders to be inset by the full distance between nodes, you'll need to be more tricky:
• Delete the repeater (you cannot dissolve it or alter its layout)
• Place a new component on alternate nodes in a square pattern
• The cylinder should then sit exactly over a node

• Select the component and "Repeat" it
• The pattern should spread over alternate nodes on the divided surface

• The spacing will then most likely be too big
• Select the divided surface and double the number of divisions (or half the spacing if it is set by distance)
• Oops - we've now ended up with the same indent as before, so we may need to try another trick

• The answer here is to coerce Revit into doing what you want by indenting the initial placement of the component 
• Make sure that the first placement node you select is one node in from both edges

• Select the component and repeat it

 

• This will only work if the number of divisions is equal;  it will probably no longer work if you start playing around with number of divisions after repeating the component - so it pays to set the number of divisions correctly to start with.

• The example here is perhaps a little more complicated than it needs be to demonstrate the principle, but it does a few other fun things too.
• The adaptive component to be repeated must be set to “Shared” so it can be scheduled;  it needs to use shared parameters so they can be scheduled too.
• In this case it is a 5 point adaptive – one for each corner of the base of a rectangle placed on each cell of the divided surface;  the fifth point works as a “Reactor” – it tracks the distance of the component from a base point.
• This rectangle is made more interesting by having a pyramid on top that has an apex that moves depending where it is in the repeater pattern.

• Place four points in a rectangular shape;  make them adaptive

• Join the four points with reference lines (make sure 3D snapping is on)

• Place a point on each line  (if correctly hosted it displays as a small point)
• For each point assign a (Shared) parameter to its “Normalised Curve Parameter” – for the notional Y axis point, make it “Y_Ratio”;  its point on the opposite side will have its “Measure From” value set to End, rather than beginning, so that they line up.
• Assign a parameter “X_Ratio” to the notional X axis points (one from beginning, one from end, depending on which direction you drew the reference lines)

• Join the two opposing points with reference lines
• Place another point on one of the linking reference lines
• Select the point and the option bar should show:

• Click on “Host by Intersection”, then select the opposing reference line;  it should move to the intersection of the reference lines
• Set the “Show Reference Planes” property of the point to Always.
• Set the work plane to the horizontal plane of the hosted intersection point (it only shows as a single line)
• Place another point on top of the one on the intersection (ensure 3D snapping is on);  ignore the error message about duplicate points;
• Select the new point and drag it up in the zed axis – its ”Offset” property should change.  If you are lucky, it should be a positive value (if it is zero, then the workplane or hosting went wrong);
• Assign a “Height” parameter to it – if it was a negative value you’ll need to assign an interim parameter then convert it to positive with a formula, for the end user to understand.

• This point becomes the apex of the pyramid;  
• Join the point to the four corners of the base with four reference lines;
• Flex the X_Ratio and Y_Ratio and Height parameters
• Create a Form (surface) on each of the four sides of the pyramid

• Place a fifth adaptive point to the left of point 1 (bottom left corner of rectangle)
• Use a reference line to join it to point 1
• Join points 5 and 4 (Bottom right corner of rectangle) with another reference line – to create a triangle of lines.
• Place 3 dimensions between the adaptive points 5 & 1, 1 &4, 4 & 5 – for each one make sure to set the relevant reference line as the work plane for the dimension;  it is vital to snap the dimensions to the adaptive points, rather than to line ends, surface corners etc (if not then you can’t use the dimensions later on in formulas)
• Make each dimension as a reporting instance parameter, for use in the “cosine law” in trigonometry.  We need to calculate the angle in the triangle
• The Cosine Law for calculating an angle when 3 sides are known, is:
  Angle γ = Arcos( (A² + B² - C²) / 2AB)
• Revit version of Cosines formula:
  Angle γ = Acos( (A^2 + B^2 - C^2) / 2*A*B)

• To work out the X and Y components of the distance “A” between points 5 and 1, use trigonometry:

• Parameters for these need to be built in to the component as shared parameters (for scheduling), as shown below;  these can subsequently be linked to the parent family parameters for these values.
  X Number and Y Number should be integers (count of repeats in each direction)
  Column Number and Row Number should also be integers.
  X Ratio and Y Ratio should be number parameters
• You may need a couple of checks to take care of when it has zero values for the distances.

• The pyramid family needs to be loaded into another family that can support a divided surface – this could be an adaptive component, a mass family or an in-place mass family in a project.  In this example it will be an in-place mass family.
• Load the pyramid into the project
• Start an in-place mass family
• Draw a rectangle of reference lines,
• Give the rectangle dimension parameters of Length and Width
• Generate a form (surface) from the lines
• Select the surface and Divide Surface 
• Make the nodes visible on the surface (Surface representation)
• Assign parameters to U Number and V Number on the surface

• Place a point just to the left of the bottom left corner of the surface – this will become the control point for measuring distance.  It is important for getting the “Reactor” effect working.
• Place an instance of the pyramid component by snapping the first four placement points onto four adjacent nodes in the same order as you originally created the adaptive points (say clockwise);  place the fifth point on the external point – it is vital that it does not go onto a node of the surface

• Link 4 parameters to equivalent parent parameters:
  Y_Number to     V Number
  X_Number to     U Number
  TotalX  to  Length
  TotalY  to  Width
• Hide the nodes on the surface (Using Surface Representation - they cannot be controlled by any view settings)
• Select the free control point and move it very close to the bottom left corner of the surface.
• Select the Pyramid and turn it into a repeater 
• All being well, the pyramid will array itself over the whole surface, but each instance will look slightly different as the apex point is changed depending on its distance from the control point in the bottom left corner.  If not, it could be caused by a problem with the component itself, or else the fifth adaptive point might be hosted on the same point as adaptive point one, in which case it would move with it.
• Select (tab) any one of the pyramids;  it should display properties including its correct column and row number

• Add the column and row numbers, and any other parameters you require
• You will be able to edit the values for Comments and Mark, but no other instance values

The Venue

• The welcome function was in the Lambert van Meerten Museum, the setting of one of Vermeer's famous paintings.  We were welcomed by a representative of the City of Delft who demonstrated an extraordinary aerodynamic umbrella that was invented in Delft.
• The main venue was the Waalse Kerk - a beautiful old church.  There we enjoyed the spectacle of Wesley Benn speaking from the pulpit (sorry he isn't in the pic below).

 

• The breakout / exhibition space was adjacent to this in a very elegant high-tech glass enclosed courtyard - they really know how to mix old and new buildings well in Europe (I've seen a lot of this sort of stuff in Belgium and the Netherlands).

 

•  The second presentation venue was the Meisjeshuis, just down the canal - well, it was a few minutes walk away beside the canal.  Once a nurses home and then a girls orphanage, it has now been converted to a conference venue.

• The alarming lean of the tower on the old chuch - looking as if it would topple over onto the Waalse Kerk any minute;

 

• If you were too busy looking at the tower you could be knocked into a canal by one of the multitude of bicycles hurtling along the streets.  Talking of which, how do those cars park so close to the edge without falling into the canals.

• Mind you, if your car goes into the canal there many bikes to choose from - they even have double-decker parking at the railway station.

The Conference

Photo by Håvard Vasshaug from twitter

Fractal patterns - source Wikipedia

Koch Snowflake - source Wikipedia

Fractal Triangles created in Revit

Fractal Trees created in Revit

Adaptive fence component with nested repeaters - follows contours

 

Repeater one - one-eigth segment of column with variable number of struts

Repeaters two and three - segment rotated/mirrored around its centre

Repeater four - column assemly in two way array over station platforms

Roof assembly at Revit-Dusk

Photo by Martin Romby - from Twitter

• Create a new adaptive component;  
• Place a point at the origin; make its reference planes visible
• Set the horizontal ref plane as the work plane
• Place a reference line circle onto the point
• Make its radius dimension into a parameter

• Select the circle
• Divide Path

•  It will create a divided path on top of the circle with 6 nodes

• Create another Adaptive component
• Place two points, and make them adaptive
• Place a line between the points, remembering to enable "3D Snapping" first

• Save the second family (eg. as "AC 2pt Line")
• Load it into the first family
• Place one of the components onto two non-adjacent nodes

 

• Select the two-point component and click on the Repeat command

• You should end up with a triangle
• NB.  if you placed the two-point adaptive line component onto adjacent nodes you'd get a hexagon

• Actually, a triangle is only half of what we want, but we need to backtrack to get the correct result - so, UNDO the repeat command
• Place a second two-point adaptive on alternating non-adjacent nodes

•  Select both lines and click on Repeat

•   
•  You should end up with a six pointed star, which is now a "Repeater"

• Select the divided path, and change the number of nodes to 5, giving you a five pointed star

•  Change it to 4, which gives a cross (not so useful)

•  Change it to 3 for a triangle

•  Change it back up to 7

•  And then to 8 - this gives an eight pointed star that could be useful in tiling patterns when repeated itself on a divided surface

•  As the number of nodes increase, the shape becomes closer to a circle

• Now all you need to do is turn the number of nodes into a parameter to get yourself a one-point adaptive parametric star component
• Oh, one more thing - you need to make the nodes of the divided path not visible otherwise they will show up when this component is placed in a project or another family

Repeater Star Patterns in Revit

 

  

Traditional Family Editor vs Conceptual Massing Environment

Conceptual Massing Environment	Traditional Revit
3D work environment ·      Offers greater flexibility ·      Can be very confusing ·      Need to continually set work plane; ·      Can pick work plane on the fly just by picking level or reference plane ·      But it is easy to make mistake with work plane ·      Levels visible in 3D (but not for in-place massing) ·      Reference planes visible in 3D (but not for in-place massing) ·      Reference lines used extensively to generate forms or host elements	2D work environment ·      Limitations  when working with unusual shapes in 3D ·      Simple, familiar workflow (for Revit users) ·      Work plane often set automatically by the view;  ·      Can set reference plane as work plane only if named first ·      Must use set work plane command (unless prompted) ·      Hard to make a mistake with work plane ·      Levels not visible in 3D ·      Reference planes not visible in 3D ·      Reference Lines used almost exclusively for controlling angles
Levels ·      Can create multiple levels within family (but not In-Place CME)  ·      Created levels do not relate to levels in project	Levels  ·      Cannot create multiple levels within family(unless already in template)  ·       Upper level in columns & 2 level Generic model do relate to project levels
3D forms created from selected elements ·      Greater flexibility ·      Harder to understand  ·      Unpredictable – eg. Cannot nominate which element is for path (result is a guessing game)  ·      Easy to make mistakes ·      Often fails to create form	3D forms are sketch-based, on a 2d work plane ·      Limited range of 3D forms ·      Simple to understand  ·      Predictable – eg. Sweep path is nominated    ·      Hard to go wrong once learnt ·      Seldom fails to generate form (usually understandable when it does – eg lines zero length)
3D forms “unlimited”  ·      Limited by what you can draw, and by certain software limitations (unknown so can’t be listed here!) ·      Can be solid or void ·      Boolean combinations –  does allow solid to cut solid ·      Booleans can be confusing (must control picking of form vs surface) ·      Can loft multiple selected shapes, which can be at varied angles	Five basic 3D forms ·      Limited to: Extrusion, Blend, Revolve, Sweep, Swept Blend ·      Can be solid or void ·      Also limited boolean combinations of above (join & cut) ·      Can only create lofting between 2 shapes - with “blend” (ends must be parallel) or “swept blend” (ends perpendicular to ends of sweep path).
Profile families ·      Cannot use traditional 2d profile families to generate forms in CME – but can use flat generic adaptive families (easy enough but different methodology)	Profile families ·      Can use traditional 2d profile families to generate forms
Editing Forms ·      Forms can be changed from one type to another (extrusion to blend to loft etc) ·      Lock/Unlock Profile command to enforce extrusion ·       Add Profile command available ·      Boolean commands to cut or combine forms	Editing Forms ·      Forms cannot be changed from one type to another – each of the five primitives are not interchangeable ·      Profiles, sweep paths, and dimensions can be changed easily ·      Boolean commands to cut or combine forms
Editing shapes of profiles ·      Complex rules;  easier to make mistake ·      Depends on how the lines/form were created: o  Base  reference lines can be moved without editing profile o  From lines and profile is “locked” – can edit ·      Edit Profile commandsometimes available (like trad. edit sketch) ·      Add/remove segments in Edit Profile mode ·      Add Edge commandsometimes available	Editing sketch profile ·      Very simple;  almost foolproof ·      Select form, “Edit Sketch” ·      Adding/removing segments very simple in sketch mode
Changes to Work Plane of profiles in forms    ·      Somewhat complex and not intuitive:  need to select original elements that were used to create form – only works if reference lines;  model lines get consumed by form, so cannot select them. ·      Can only change work plane of selected elements to a parallel plane ·      Extrusion with “locked profile” will display Positive and Negative Offsets if top or bottom face is selected;  (but work plane of original lines is not displayed at the same time) – so it is possible to change location of a top face relative to bottom face (not possible with blend or loft) ·      User can place a dimension for the height of the form, but this involves extra steps; it stops temporary dimensions working for that face; ·      If the height dimension is turned into a parameter it may remove spot elevations and shape handles of forms back in the project environment	Changes to sketch profile Work Plane    ·      Very simple – “Edit Work Plane” or “Pick New” commands available to relocate original sketch and thus modify or move form ·      Using “Pick New” work plane, can totally change orientation of an extrusion or blend. ·      Extrusion or blend have properties:  Workplane; First End; Second End so it is easy to change the opposite end of the form by amending End property.
Identify or Change absolute location of a face in CME (eg. If you need to know RL of top of an extrusion)   ·      This is a nightmare!  It is really difficult: ·      Extrusions display a positive & negative offset for a face only if profile is locked – therefore it won’t work for a blend ·      Work plane property is only displayed in a separate dialog box; and only if the original reference planes are selected; not possible with model lines. ·      It is not possible to place a Spot Elevation annotation in the CME ·      If you place a Spot Elevation annotation onto an in-place mass before editing, the annotation disappears as soon as you edit – so you cannot see the RL as you drag the face of an extrusion! ·      In the project environment, if you drag the face of an extrusion (mass family) using the shape handle, an attached Spot Elevation will not update dynamically– only updates after you let go the handle	Identify or Change absolute location of a face in Model In-Place family (eg. Need to know RL of top of an extrusion) ·      Very simple: Edit Family; select form to see properties ·      Extrusion or blend have properties visible in same dialog box:  Work Plane; First End; Second End (dimensions) so it is easy to know its absolute location. ·      Easy to change Second End property of extrusion or blend to an absolute location (assuming base work plane is a level, grid or named reference plane) ·      It is not possible to place a Spot Elevation annotation within In-Place family ·      If you place a Spot Elevation annotation onto an in-place family before editing, the annotation disappears as soon as you edit– but this is not so bad because it easy to identify RL from work plane + second end property ·      In the project environment, if you drag the face of an extrusion (in-place family) using the shape handle, an attached Spot Elevation will update dynamically
Panelling ·      Divided surfaces can only be done within CME, not in project environment ·      Divided surfaces are fairly flexible (grids or intersects), ·      Divided surfaces are not always predictable or easy to control ·      Curtain Panel Pattern families are special types of components that can only be applied or modified as patterns within the CME.  This is very “unRevit-like”. ·      Only Curtain Panel Pattern or Adaptive families can be applied to a divided surface as a pattern of panels or repeater – but this must be within CME ·      Adaptive and Curtain Panel Pattern components can be individually placed on divided surface nodes (only if visible) in CME – they will move with changes to nodes	Panelling ·      Curtain walls and systems can be placed in the project environment;  ·      Curtain wall/system divisions are limited ·      Curtain wall/system divisions are fairly predictable ·      Panels in curtain walls and systems are regular components that follow normal Revit rules ·      It is not possible to apply a traditional Revit family to a divided surface as a pattern of panels (or suchlike) – it may be technically possible by nesting, but that is not a realistic option ·      Adaptive components can be placed on divided surface nodes (only if visible) in Project Environment – but they will not move with changes to nodes.  NB. Node visibility can only be changed by editing the mass family.
Categories - CME ·      Mass family cannot be changed to other categories ·      Adaptive families can be changed to some limited other categories (but not to structural) ·      Adaptive families cannot be changed to mass category	Categories - Regular family ·      Regular family can be changed to many other categories but not to mass, adaptiveor system  (except by obscure workarounds) ·      Changing category will inherit some characteristics of new category but depends on what is normally in pre-set templates
File size & performance - CME ·      much larger files ·      multiple nesting can increase size significantly ·      can run very slowly, especially with multiple nesting	File size & performance ·      smaller  files ·      multiple nesting only increases size a small amount ·      run moderate to fast depending on formulas and nesting
Line selection in CME ·      Chain of lines is automatically highlighted for selection (this is mighty confusing and wastes much more time than it could ever save)	Line selection in traditional family editor / project environment ·      Chain of lines is only highlighted for selection using the tab key
Copy and Paste ·      Cannot copy and paste into CME from traditional family ·      Cannot copy and paste from project environment into CME	Copy and Paste ·      Cannot copy and paste into traditional family from CME ·      Can copy and paste lines from project environment into traditional family editor (limited)
Nesting ·      Cannot nest CME or Adaptive families into traditional families	Nesting ·      Can nest traditional families into CME or Adaptive
Group command not available	Group command is available
Create Similar command not available	Create Similar command is available for in-place families
Does not have “Annotation” tab in the ribbon ·      Cannot place text ·      Cannot place symbols ·      Cannot place Symbolic Lines ·      Cannot place Detail Components ·      Cannot place Detail Groups ·      Cannot place Masking Region ·     Does not have model text. ·     only way to get any kind of text/label/tag into a mass or adaptive component is to nest a generic component that has model text in it	Does have “Annotation” tab in the ribbon ·      Can place most detail/annotations to represent 2D information in plans sections and elevations ·      Cannot place filled region in model families (have to be nested)
Divide line & Divide Surface available ·      Mismatch between numbers on divided path vs surface ·      Divided path/surface node visibility setting is obscure ·      Divided path/surface nodes visible in project	Divide line & Divide Surface not available
Arrays – in CME / Adaptive ·      Repeater command available ·      Repeaters relatively flexible but hard to predict ·      Repeaters can be 2 or 3 dimensional (inc radial) ·      Array command not available	Arrays ·      Repeater command not available ·      Array command available ·      Arrays very limited but predictable ·      Arrays only 2 dimensional or radial
Volume properties ·      “Gross Volume” mass property cannot be scheduled or tagged	Volume properties ·      “Volume” property of forms in generic category (only) can be scheduledbut not tagged

Revit Stair By Component

Winder Stairs

 

• It is recommended that you only attempt to work with winder stair components if you have plenty of time and patience!
• It may be more efficient to start a stair as a winder component but convert it to sketch as soon as it starts wasting your time.

• in Continental Europe it is common to use "balanced winders";
• In Australia they are not suitable, so you need to use "single-point winders".

L-Shaped Winders

• You can mirror the run before placing it, by ticking the “Mirror Preview” box on the options toolbar ;   
• You can also rotate the stair by pressing the spacebar before placing it.  
• It places the run with the number of risers you have set, depending on the full remaining stair height required; alternatively you can override the number of risers in the overall stair instance properties before you place it, then set the number back to the full number afterwards.   
• There are two styles of winder stair available – “Balanced” or “Single-Point”

Balanced Winder Stair

Single-Point Winder Stair

• Balanced winder stairs generally have angled risers spread over most of the stair – the change in angle of each riser is incremental.  These are commonly used only in continental Europe.
• Single Point winders generally have parallel risers for most of the stair, while the angled risers are concentrated around the change in direction, with only a few winders.  These are more commonly used in the rest of the world, outside Europe.  This implementation of single-point winders has many limitations, and is very difficult to work with – it is impossible to create a stair with only 2 winder treads;  it is difficult to achieve only 3 or 4 winders.  The main reason for this is that the number of angled risers is controlled by setting the number of parallel treads.

 

• This system works ok for balanced stairs, but for single-point stairs you actually want to define how many winders there are, but you are forced to do the reverse and calculate how many parallel ones you need in order to achieve it.

• First set the desired height and run width properties;
• Place a winder run, accepting the default layout;
• Change the overall run lengths using the arrow shape handles;
• Change its properties to a single-point winder;
• Increase the number of parallel treads for each leg, but do it incrementally so that you can tell at which number it fails;
• Fine tune the overall run lengths – place reference planes so that the shape handle arrows can snap to them (the only way to control it - important step).

 

• It is almost impossible to control the location of the setout point for the winders – it seems that it has to be outside the run, not on the edge of the run as is normal in Australia.  The closest it will go is 26.35mm from the inside corner (in each direction), or 0.8mm in one direction, and 51.7mm the other. 
• NB. when placing a winder stair, if you have just ticked the Mirror Preview  box, you may need to get the focus back on the main canvas before pressing the spacebar (use the middle mouse button to do it).

 

Modifying L-Shaped Winder Stairs

 

 

 

 

 

Creating Curved and Spiral Stairs

Full-Step Spiral

• Spiral stairs creation does not snap to orthogonal, so make sure you place a reference plane first so it can snap to that - to get centre and first riser aligned orthogonally.
• Press the space bar after the first mouse-click to flip the orientation (it is too late to flip it after the second mouse-click).
• If you press the “Flip” command after placement, it will only reverse the direction (swap first/last riser), but will not mirror its location.
• Make sure that you get the radius correct first time, because it is almost impossible to change it accurately afterwards in v2013 (its better in v2014).

Center-Ends Spiral

 

 

Modifying Curved Stair Components   

Flip    

Align Tool

• If you try to align a curved run edge or centreline, it will not select the curved edge at all - ie. it can't be done.
• If you align the end point of a riser line to a curved line, it will move the run , but in the process will change the radius of the stair and none of the other riser ends will align - so don't try this!
• if you try to align the ends of a curved run, it should work providing the reference line is radial from the centre of the arc; but the landing length (between runs) will be changed
• It will not align the sides of curved landings.
• if you align a landing end (where it meets a run), it will most likely move the whole landing, which in turn will move the associated runs, in effect moving the whole stair. Sometimes with a landing it may It gives a cryptic error message.

Shape Handles

• Dragging this circle will adjust the radius of the arc defining the centreline of the stair run.  It does not change position with the location line – it is always the centreline of the stair. 
• This will not snap to any increments or elements, giving random dimensions, which renders it effectively useless – hence you can never accurately change a curved stair radius after placing it in v2013. 
• This is the only way to change the radius of a curved stair in v2013
• Refer to Temporary Dimensions for an alternative method in v2014 .
• If you have a landing on a curved stair, attempting to use the centre-circle shape handle will also move the other run (not selected one) thus distorting the landing.

• Side-Shape handle arrows behave like the centre circle – they won’t snap to elements or increments so they are next to useless.

• Dot shape-handle will add/remove risers from that run.  Warning: height of that end of the run is adjusted so the base could be up in the air;
• Arrows will add/remove risers from that run but remove/add the same number to the other end of the stair.  Height of ends will not change but location in plan will change.

Temporary Dimensions

• Spiral stair run width cannot be changed by its temporary dimension – you must use the properties.
• Spiral stair radius cannot be changed by temporary dimension in v2013 but can be in v2014.
• If a curved stair has a landing on it, it is not possible to change the radius of both runs together, so in v2013 it will not be possible to adjust at all – just delete and start again (and lose all the annotation etc)!   
• In v2014 you can use the following procedure:

 

• If the stair has a landing, you need to adjust run by run, which does some interesting things to the landings in the process

• It also seems to change the run width, but do not be alarmed - just reselct the run to see it has the correct width

•  Once the radius is adjusted on the second run, it corrects the landing shape

•  However, the landing length is now wrong

• This needs to be adjusted by rotating one of the runs or else by dragging the shape handle arrows on the landing.  Most likely you nee some construction lines first, in order to get the landing length right, in which case you could use the align tool to get the runs in the right place (do not select the landing).

 

Move Command         

• Moving a landing will move the whole stair as one;
• Moving a run will distort the landing.

Rotate Command

• Rotating a curved run about the arc centre-point will reduce or expand any attached landings.   Most likely you will need to set up some construction lines to snap to so that the landing length is correct.
• Rotating a landing about the arc centre-point will bring both runs with it, effectively rotating the whole stair.  

Creating Component Based Stair Landings in Revit

1.  Automatic Landing

 

On a dog-leg stair, Revit will automatically make the landing width the same as the run width

2.  Pick Two Runs

3.  Create sketch

4.  Convert component

5.  Landing at the top of a stair

• Create a sketched landing; or 
• Place an extra run at the top so that Revit creates an automatic landing; then delete that run – the landing will remain, but will be converted to a sketch based component

 

 

6.  Landings on complex stairs

• First you need to draw the lower run and one of the upper runs

 

• Then mirror the upper run

•  Delete the landing

• Place a new landing by picking the two upper runs.  If the landing edge happens to be coincident with the lower run then you may be lucky enough for Revit to join them automatically.

• If the lower run is not coincident, then you would need to convert the landing to a sketch and modify it.
• If the landing and runs were all joined, but you move one away, Revit will warn you that it needs to unjoin the stairs;  but what it does not warn you is that it automatically converts it to a sketch based landing.

 

7.  Landings on multi-level stairs

 

 Align Tool

• if you align a landing edge, it will most likely move the landing, which in turn will move the associated runs, in effect moving the whole stair

 

• If you align a run edge, it will move that run. If there is a linked landing, it will also move the edge of the landing, changing its size; it will not move the next run

 

• NB. Align does not work on the centreline or edges of a curved stair

Move Tool

Simple Stair

• You can use the Move command on the landing component, or select the two runs and move those – either way the effect is the same. 
• You then have to drag the arrow shape handle at top or bottom of the stair to return the risers to their original location, and Revit will automatically add/remove risers from the connected run

 

Complex Stair (multiple landings)

Move Run to Adjust Landing Shape

 

Move Landing in Section to change stair layout

Shape Handles

Revit v2013

Landing Width/Depth

Revit v2014 Shape-Handles

 

Landing Width/Depth

Landing Properties

• Change the adjacent run widths;
• Move adjacent runs;
• Use the shape handles; 
• Temporary landing depth dimension (v2014 only)
• Convert to sketch (not advisable).

Temporary Dimensions

• Landings do not have any temporary dimensions when selected in v2013.
• Landings do have landing depth temporary dimensions when selected in v2014.
• Spot dimensions can be placed on landings in plan and section/elevation, but they cannot be used to adjust landing heights

Convert to Sketch

• Have rounded corners
• Have notches cut out of outside corners (only in stairwell)

• It will never have shape handles;
• It will never adjust in plan when adjacent runs are moved;  
• it will cause error messages requiring landings and runs to unjoin if an attached run is forced to move away from the landing;
• It will allow height adjustments

Tips and Tricks

• If you want to change the landing width it is better to change the adjacent run widths to control it automatically (unless you don’t want them to align).
• In Revit v2014 it allows the landing extent/depth to be smaller than the narrowest run width. To fix this you can use the shape handles on its outer edge or the temporary dimension.
• in v2013, landings do not have handles where it meets a run, so you can’t use shape handles there - to stagger the risers for example; you have to MOVE a whole run to achieve that. 
• Be careful with the Move command on landings because it will most likely affect adjacent runs, and may end up moving the whole stair.
• If you have created a top landing, any changes to the adjoining run below it may not be able to flow through to the top landing (as it cannot change in plan) and it may give you a message about "stairs and landing cannot be joined".
• The quickest way to change a stair layout might be to change a landing height property - this can be done without even editing the stair

1.  Filter

• It does not distinguish between model or detail lines, but it does separate out line types
• It lists "Detail Items" as one category, when in reality they could be filled regions, detail components, repeating details etc.
• Stairs are listed, and stair components are itemised separately
• Text Notes are listed but not separated by type (as lines are)
• etc - the list goes on

2.  View Visibility

• Some categories are wrongly assigned as model - eg. Detail Items, which are clearly annotation categories as they are view specific
• Model and detail lines are again all grouped together under Lines in the model tab - wrong!  
• Even worse, Lines include sub-categories for Area Boundaries and Room Separation lines, which should really be subsets of Areas and Rooms; and these line subcategories don't even behave the same way although they perform similar functions - Area lines are never visible in 3D, while Room separation lines are visible in 3D.
• Just to add to the confusion, if you go to the Annotation Tab, you'll find a whole bunch of stuff that is certainly not view specific: 
• Grids, Levels and Reference Planes should most assuredly have their own tab called "Datums"
• Scope Boxes, Section Boxes, Callouts, Sections, Elevations are all to do with view definitions - and they can all potentially be seen in multiple views (some in 3D too).  What on earth are they all doing under the Annotation tab?  They need a separate tab - or maybe grouped with datums under "Setouts"?
• Adaptive Points under the Annotation tab - just plain crazy!  And there are some other point types that you can't even control visibility of from this dialog box (eg. divide path/surface), which is endlessly frustrating.

• For a new user, this stuff is confusing as hell.  Its a mess that is long overdue for a fix-up.
• And it doesn't even remotely help us with this task.

3.  Select All Instances in View

4.  Isolate

5.  Properties

6.  Tooltip

7.  Worksets

8.  Workset Visibility

9.  Convert

Loretto Chapel, Santa Fe

Taihang Mountains, China

Creating Multistorey Stairs – Method 1

• Create a typical one-storey stair; go to the stair properties

• Change the “Multistory Top Level” property from None to an upper level on the list. Assuming floor to floor heights are all equal, it will replicate the lower stair on the upper storey(s). With this method, the upper storeys must be the same heights as the lower ones;  alternatively, if you have changed the stair Base or Top Offsets to something other than zero, then the Multistory Top Level needs to be a multiple of the "Desired Stair Height" shown in the properties.

• Note that it will not add the intermediate landings at each storey level – you need to do that yourself (see below)
• If the upper storey heights are different, you will probably get an error message. If you proceed it will store the warning with the stair and create intermediate storeys, but will not create the flights for the top level 

• If the odd storey height is somewhere in the middle of the building, Revit does not build a reduced height stair like “Floor 7 ½ ” in the film Being John Malkovich 

 

• Instead Revit gives a warning about that floor and keeps building the stair with flights at standard heights to match the original but stops short of the top.

• If the levels are changed so that all are matching, the stair will not adjust itself automatically, nor will the warning disappear – you need to manually reset the top storey level to get it to add the missing storey. 
• Also, if the levels all start off equal and one is subsequently changed, Revit will not adjust the stair nor will it give an error message – it just won’t align the landings with levels. You can use this to your advantage if you want a multistorey stair to go up through a non-standard storey height but with standard run heights.

• (Hot Tip) In fact you can take this a step further (pun intended) by creating a special level just to control the top of your multistorey stair, and give that level an explicit name. The height of that level must be a multiple of the “Desired Stair Height” (typically the height between the lower two stair levels). It does not matter what other levels exist between the Top Offset and Multistorey Top Level

• Then change your stair properties to reach that Multistorey Top Level

• Once that is done you can move the special level out of harms way – it can even go below the lowest stair level underground. You must not delete the level otherwise the multistorey part will disappear – so it is a good idea to rename it to warn people not to remove it 

 

•  This method will eliminate the warning message for the stair, for those who have a zero tolerance policy for warnings.

Tread Numbers

 

Intermediate Landings 

• You can go back into Edit mode to add a landing at the top of the defined stair by creating a sketch landing or by adding an extra run at the top, then deleting the run - the remaining landing will be converted to a sketch based component 

• (refer to Landings for more detail)

• Once you complete the stair, you will notice a few very odd things happen

• The upper stairs will not join properly with the new intermediate landing

• This can be partially rectified by changing the run property “Extend Below Base” to a negative figure matching the landing thickness (it will also extend into the floor at the base); it won’t actually join the landing but at least it will be modelled correctly at the junction.

Railings 

• Revit will also create railings all around the intermediate landings effectively blocking off the upper flights; it will also join the inner and outer railings into one element

• first you need to do some undoing to reinstate that temporary run above the top landing (refer Method 1 or item 5 of Adding Landings to top of stairs );  

• Edit the outside railing (because of the top run there are two separate railings). 
• Delete the segment associated with the extra run

• Make sure there is a break in the loop by dragging the end of the landing rail line away from the first run line; the gap must be at least 32mm otherwise the lines will automatically rejoin! (That is about 1 ¼ inches in that quaint imperial system used in the USA).

• NB. If you want the sloping section of rail to extend one tread beyond the lowest riser (common practise), then you need to extend that line by one tread depth before making the 32mm gap.  It may give you a slope warning, but it is not clear why because the railing will be parallel to the flight

• One method to stop that warning is to make the sketch line overrun dimension just short of a tread depth – by 1mm say (for a 250mm tread, the railing sketch line should extend 249mm past the lowest riser)

• Then you need to do something similar for the inside loop railing – delete unwanted segments and make a gap. You might again want to extend the sloping rail line by one tread (minus 1mm), and then make the gap in the short landing line

• Another alternative is to extend the short landing line by at least 32mm, and leave a gap of 1mm to avoid the sloping railing warning. The best option depends on how your rail is defined relative to the sketch line location and how you want the join to work

• Finish the railing sketch

• Edit the stair to delete the top flight – the railings should now be separate. NB. This process does break the automatic nature of the railing sketch – it will no longer update when the stair changes

 

Staircase up the Rock of Guatape, Columbia

Three flight One-Storey Stair

• Start with placing two runs, and it will create the first landing.  Note that Revit numbers the first and last riser on each run

• Then place another run starting on top of the lowest run (this was not possible prior to Revit v2013);  it starts getting confusing already - it tells you how many risers are remaining to finish but its hard to distinguish visually where you are at

• The top run will display riser numbers when selected, but only after it is placed - this helps you distinguish which run you have selected

• It is much easier to see what is happening in section, elevation or 3D, although riser numbers are not displayed; you do get the shape handles in section/elevation

• When you finish the stair, you will get the inevitable warning message

• Revit will go ahead and create the railings, with only the usual glitches as it tries vainly to go around the inside corners

 

• The reason for the warning is that the automatically created railings contain sketch lines that overlap each other.  Revit would not normally allow this to happen - certainly if you tried to sketch it that way yourself it would not let you.

Multi-Level Multistorey Stairs

• After placing the first couple of stair runs, when you start placing more overlapping runs, the automatic riser numbers in plan will display the Desired Number of Risers + the additional number

•  Just for the record, the size of these automatic riser numbers is controlled by the view scale - if you want to be able to read them, just bump up the scale temporarily

• The riser height will be constant for every run - this means that on the runs above the defined Top Level, you may not be able to align the stair exactly with levels where upper storey heights vary

• Once the stair is complete, you will be able to label the step numbers using the "Stair Tread Number" annotation tool.  The numbers will display the correct riser number within the whole stair rather than the "Desired +" that you get with the automatic riser numbers.  This is a different result to method 1 (virtual upper level runs created using the Multistory Top Level setting) where the upper levels cannot be numbered at all

• The riser height will again be constant for every run - this means that intermediate landings may not be able to align exactly with middle levels where any storey heights vary

•  The automatic riser numbers in plan will be the actual number within the whole stair

Apologies to Kevin Costner (hidden behind the railings)

In the previous post, I described creating a multistorey stair using "Method 2" in Revit 2013 (or later) - ie. one that has runs or landings modelled above of each other.  Using that technique, you would certainly encounter this warning message when you finish the stair:

• When you complete the stair, Revit will go ahead and create the railings, along with the warning - it may be a warning for the internal railing only, or else both railings, depending on the extent of run overlap

 

• In this example the the base of the top run sits above the base of the lowest run;  the top run is shorter so the tops of the runs do not align - so there is only one warning

• Let us suppose that you need to extend the lowest railing by one tread (as required by the building codes in Australia)

•  First edit the inside railing.   Note the overlapping sketch lines for the first and third runs

 

• You need to select the line related to the lower run - in this case we are lucky because the runs are different lengths, so we can select the longer one relatively easily

• Extend the line to the left by one tread depth (250mm in this case) - it will now line up with the return on the landing.  When you try to finish the sketch it will give an error - this time it will not complete the railing because you have joined a sketch line belonging to the lowest run to a landing line at a different height (much too confusing for Revit to handle)

• The only way around that is to undo;  try again but stop the line short of the landing return - the closest it will let you get is 26mm (just over an inch) before it automatically snaps to the corner. 

.

• Well, that isn't quite good enough because the railing is still an inch short.  I guess you could fudge it by adding a railing termination, but that is not going to work in every situation - so that is not acceptable either.  Looks like we'll have to resort to another workaround.

• NB. If runs one and three were the same length exactly above each other, you probably wouldn't even get to this stage because both ends of the sketch line would align with the end point of other lines - you'd get the error message whatever you do

Dances With Wolves (or Railings With Warnings)

• You may need to start with the railings as they were automatically created - either undo any changes or else delete the railings and replace them using the Place On Host command

• Select the top run of the stair;  change its width property to 1mm less than it was (or try 1/32nd inch for you imperials) - in stair edit mode or just tab-select the run without editing the stair

• You may get a warning that the Actual run Width is less than the Minimum, but you can ignore this for the moment

•  Edit the inside railing - notice that you have two distinct lines only 1mm apart

 

•  You can drag the end of the lower run all the way until it meets the landing line (no need to leave a 26mm gap this time)

• When you try to finish the sketch it will probably give an error;  so you will need to drag the line back so it stops 1mm short of the landing line - hopefully acceptable;  if not, you can make the gap even smaller: anything less than 0.4mm will show dimensions rounded down so they appear correct.

• This time it should work when you complete the sketch
• Once the railing is fixed, you probably need to reset the run width back to its original dimension.

• Note the Location Line of the stair run before you change its width - it needs to be set to the opposite side of the run from the railing that you are trying to change (or center if you want to change both railings

• Normally, if a stair is modified, then its automatically generated railings will update to match - except:
• Once you edit an automatically generated railing sketch in any way it breaks the connection between stair and railing - so that modifications to the stair layout will no longer be applied to railings automatically
• Because of this behaviour, you need to apply the run width trick before editing the railing sketch, so that the railing sketch becomes a spiral pattern
• If you have already edited the sketch, the trick would only work if you delete the railing and place a new automatic one
• Once the railing is fixed, set the run width property back to its original dimension.   The stair will correct itself, and the railing will maintain its 1mm offsets - but only if you did edit the sketch
• This is the reason for making upper runs smaller - when they are corrected, the railing sketch lines are not dropped off the edge of the stair runs (which would happen if you initially made upper stair runs larger).  In other words, your sketch spiral needs to remain on the stair runs not in the stair well.

 

• You are much better off working with the sketch lines that Revit creates - modify those rather than creating new lines, so that you have a better chance of Revit understanding which lines relate to which runs or landings

• It is ok to let railing sketch lines cross over each other.  The important thing is to keep the correct lines joined to each other at corners

 

• Make sure that the sketch line segment is on the run component in plan (or on its edge);  if it moves off the run it will lose its hosting; if the run moves the railing segment may not move with it.

•  The railing sketch line has "Slope" properties when selected (on the Options Toolbar) - make sure it is set to By Host or Sloped

 

• If the sketch line is set back from the edge of the run, then the corresponding landing railing line should also be set back from the landing edge (even with only one landing).  Sometimes offsetting the landing sketch line by 1mm will correct the horizontal run railing line problem

Multi-Level Multistorey Railings

• You could do this by adjusting the landings themselves - but it gets fiddly as landings don't have depth properties so you need to drag the shape handles, which will not snap to increments.  Refer to modifying landings
• Alternatvely you can just offset the landing sketch lines yourself - it is easy to distinguish which is which because their lengths are different due to changed run widths